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In this episode, Mike Honious, President and CEO at GEODIS Americas, joins Host Brian Glick, CEO of Chain.io, to discuss:
- The state of the international supply chain
- Opportunities to grow during a supply chain recession
- How technology has changed the way supply chain teams work
- Approaching supply chain problems from an engineering mindset
- Leadership, culture, and communication in a global organization
- Creating a workplace culture that fosters collaboration and flexibility
As President and CEO of GEODIS’ Americas region, Mike oversees the management and growth of its multiple business units across North and South America, including contract logistics, transportation management, freight forwarding, engineering and technology, IT, ProVenture, and Material Handling Resources. Mike has served several roles over his nearly 20-year tenure at GEODIS and was most recently named President and CEO of the Americas in 2020. Today, Mike leads the region’s more than 17,000 teammates across eight countries to continue offering a better way to deliver for its customers.
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AppleSpotifyEpisode Transcript
Brian Glick 00:04
Welcome to supply chain connections. I'm Brian Glick, founder and CEO of Chain.io. In this episode, we're going to talk to Mike Honious. Mike is the president and CEO of GEODIS Americas. You'll hear in the episode that Mike and I have worked together for a very long time. And Mike has always been a person that I've admired for his forthright approach and his willingness to put people first. So I hope you enjoy it.
Brian Glick 00:37
Mike, welcome to the show.
Mike Honious 00:40
Thank you, Brian. How have you been? Long time no speak.
Brian Glick 00:44
Yeah, no, I've been good. Again. Thanks for being on. Why don't we just dive in? Tell us how you got into the business. And now it's been a long journey.
Mike Honious 00:54
Well, Brian, How long have we worked together now?
Brian Glick 00:56
12 years? 20 years?
Mike Honious 00:57
Yeah, pretty amazing. So I guess by that people can calculate how long I've been in the business when I have to add on about 10 more years. But it really was by default. So I was in college. And this is kind of a crazy story. You don't mind me getting into the details? So I was in college and I went to University of Dayton, a great school, by the way. And, you know, had a few parties. I went there too, but I did graduate with an industrial engineering technology degree, but I was a COA. So I did it. When I was like my sophomore year, I went through five sessions and, and I was a quality control engineer, I was a manufacturing engineer. And in the Dayton area there, we used to call it the rust belt. So it was a lot of OEMs etc. And, and I thought that's what I was gonna be and, and sure enough, when I was getting ready to graduate, I was interviewing and I got to the placement office and sent my resume down to a company called The Gap.
And I got a call, Sean Curran, a great guy by the way. I still stay in touch with them. But he calls me up and says, Hey, Mike, I'd like you to come down for an interview at the gap. I'm like, alright, well, I had never even heard of the gap. I grew up on a farm in Indiana, like in Fountain City, Indiana. So I went to my girlfriend at the time, who's now my beloved wife of 31 years, Sue. And I'm like, Hey, I got the gap to interview me. What the heck is this place? You know, like, you never heard of the gap? And I'm like, No, she's Oh, my gosh, I gotta take it, you know, to some stores. So I'm walking around, and she takes me into the mall. And she shows me around the gap. And I'm like, oh, blue jeans. Okay, I get it, you know, and then I meet my future mother in law at the time and my future mother in law's in a, she's in like, one of these stock, you know, like personal, you know, they have these like little stock committees or whatever, you know, they do on the side, and she's calling me out the Gap stock. That's great. Like, it's really going. I mean, this is like the early 90s. And I'm like, Okay, well, it's got a good stock price. And my wife likes the store. So I'm going to another interview. So sure enough, I met Sean and he’s like, Hey, Mike, you know, he had graduated in the 80s. And Dayton, you know, we're trading like Dayton stories. And he was a mechanical engineering graduate. And we started talking about it and we hit it off. And sure enough, he offered me a job as an industrial engineer. So you know, back in the early 90s, I had other offers in automotive and manufacturing, because I thought that's what I wanted to be. And I go down, and it's like this over a million square, two facilities kind of together over a million square feet, with gap and Old Navy. And I was doing productivity standards. And that's how I got started. And I thought maybe I'd be in a supply chain for like, maybe two years working in a warehouse and I'll be dead gone. I am 31 years, and I'm talking to you, Brian. I've known you for 20 and I'm still in it. But there you have it.
Brian Glick 03:44
So why just stay like you could have gone and done something else?
Mike Honious 03:48
I could have. I could have. And you know, the first reason is Gap, Old Navy, Banana Republic. I mean, those are the three brands that I worked with. I mean, I helped start up the Old Navy brand back in the day. It was a great company. I learned a lot. I got to do all different types of things. I was an industrial engineer, then I got an opportunity to be a project manager. I'll never forget Brian getting into your little tech world. I'll never forget, I was an engineer trying to create this forklift utilization project. And I was coding at FoxPro. And trying to design a better efficient way on how to move forklifts with pallets into the storage racks and then not have them be what you would call deadhead back. So I'm like, hey, if we can get him to pick up a pallet and take it to shipping? I mean, I'm increasing my utilization rate. So I got really into that. And before you knew it, I was trying to find a software to do forklift utilization. And bingo, I'm walking right into the world of warehouse management systems. And you gotta think this is like 1994 1995 I met the founder of Manhattan and he was trying to sell me a receiving module. It was even before Manhattan was even developed, you know? Back in the day, and yeah, it was a lot of fun, I was just learning a lot of different things. And, you know, there really weren't too many schools that were in supply chain. So it was pretty fascinating. I mean, I had a job that, you know, none of my friends really had, because they all went pretty much into manufacturing. And here I am working in a warehouse and supply chain.
Brian Glick 05:16
So about 10 years ago, I was at a tech conference, and there was a panel and the topic for the panel was, “should executives know how to code?” And the argument on the panel was, was not necessarily that executives should spend their days coding, but that they should understand the concepts of like, how you structure things, and how you bring that kind of engineering mentality to problems. As someone who has written code, right, and is now a senior executive, do you think that coming from that engineering background, and coming from that process oriented structure has affected what you do today in the way you approach problems?
Mike Honious 05:56
I've never really thought about it. But since you brought it up, I feel like I'm one big if/then statement now. So let me elaborate a little bit. I mean, for those of you out there in the world, and most of you know what if/then statement is, it's a lot about logic. So if you do something, then what are you going to do? And you know, back in the days when I was learning how to code I mean, that's how you did it. I mean, you just tried to do a lot of scenarios. And, you know, it really helped me out on how I think through problems, I address things logically, it allows me not to get into what I would call the drama world, it really kind of sets you back to understand, Okay, what's the real problem that you're trying to solve? And is there a way to be able to do it, and there's a way to do it the most efficient night, I've always had the saying, and I use it, because I've worked in the IT world, I worked in the engineering world. And I compare five engineers, I can compare five IT programmers, and you know what, they're all going to come up with a different way, most likely to solve the problem. And they're all going to think their way is the best way. But at the end of the day, it gets solved. And as a leader, knowing how all that works together, and you appreciate the fact that it's sold, and you appreciate who did it. That's all you need to do. It's okay, sometimes when it's done a little bit differently and what you think. And I think having that background and experience back when I was younger, has helped me think through things now that you don't always understand exactly what the true problem is. But you do have a method on how it gets solved. And you have a great team that works for you to be able to do it.
Brian Glick 07:29
So yeah, I mean, like, for me, one of those things is the abstraction changes, right. So, you know, like, if you're in the early 80s, you're sitting there, you're actually like soldering wires and things. And then eventually, we get operating systems and programmers now work at a completely different level that just generally just code in business terminology. And then directors are trying to figure out how to move people around and VPs are trying to figure out how to move departments around and but it is that very much I agree like that if then statement in being able to see those patterns. I think that those of us who see that probably really do have an advantage.
Mike Honious 08:06
Brian, I got one more better for you. All right. I remember in the late 1980s, I got to use the first version of AutoCAD. So not many people might not know what AutoCAD is, but it was the software where you actually create and draw things because I was an engineer I was drawing pelletizer knives or whatnot. This is why I was in college, when I heard the terminology snap and the way AutoCAD worked back then you had dots and you would snap the lines to be able to draw the part that you're trying to create. So imagine me and learning how to use the first version ever AutoCAD on a 386 and then migrating to this exceptional software called FoxPro. Like in 1994, you know, I'm like, I'm blazing the path, knowing that I actually knew how to do Fortran in college. So I mean, I am way dating myself.
Brian Glick 08:59
But I think you are establishing your street cred though, with any nerds who maybe we get supply chain people and tech people listening. So I think we've cleared your street cred for the day. I was thinking back last night about probably the one argument that I remember you and I actually having, right because we both tended to complain about others more than we argued with each other at the time. But I remember we were standing up a warehouse one time and I was in charge of all the infrastructure, which included the Wi Fi and your team was in charge of the layouts of the warehouse and so on. We set up a warehouse for a beverage company. And the first day none of the Wi Fi works, because my team didn't understand that we were going to fill all those racks essentially with water which blocks Wi Fi signals. And it caused a heck of a storm because the place was non functional because none of the scan guns were working and my team went we did our jobs and your team went we did our jobs and then us as management had to like sort that out, which ended up being a lot more about the soft skills with the customer than it became about like, we knew what the problem was. We just needed to put more Wi-Fi in. But like, as you've now gone from being the person in front of the AutoCAD to being management, right, like, what did you learn that let you make that transition from managing people and not being able to go in and just hang the things yourself and having to like, coach people on how to get through problems.
Mike Honious 10:26
Oh Brian, let's just get out in the real world in our argument, let's have people visualize us walking around the warehouse. And I'm like, Okay, are you guys working? Working? We're up. It's not working. And you're looking at? Well, the antennas up there. They're 25 people. Well, is it because you have too many people hitting one antenna? Or not? Well, let's walk on this other oil seem like it's working. Let's go down to Ohio. 35. Well, okay, Brian, we're walking to work. It doesn't work anymore. Brian, what the heck is going on here? Well, I don't know. Mike, what do you do? Do you turn your afghan off? Anyway? Visualize that world, right?
Brian Glick 10:59
So neither of us gets to do that anymore. For people to do that, what did you learn that let you go from being the person who actually walks around with a gun, to having to to letting that go, right, and having to trust somebody else to do it?
Mike Honious 11:14
Yeah, to tell you, it's tough. It's tough. But you know, you love what you do. And the first lesson that I will tell anybody out there is you got to listen. All right, you got to listen to the person, and you got to get feedback on exactly what's going on. And you listen to that. And then you ask somebody else a question about what they're seeing. And you listen to what they have, and what they have to say and what they're seeing. And then as a leader, it's your job to be able to facilitate a conversation, and a discussion with the team to understand what the root cause is, there's many techniques out there, oh, we can do a fishbone diagram, or, Hey, let's do a root cause analysis, etc, etc. But as a leader, you are the one that's bringing people together, no matter what their mood is, no matter what their temperature is, no matter how they're feeling. As a leader, you're the one bringing the team together to make sure that you can solve the situation. And it's all about listening, then everybody has a voice. And you have to make sure that that happens.
Brian Glick 12:11
So it's interesting. I want to double down on this. Because there's another way that I've heard people kind of answer that question, which is, everyone brings stuff and you make the decision. And you didn't just say that you said you facilitate the decision getting made, and is actually not probably the more common view of leadership.
Mike Honious 12:29
I think people get confused. And, you know, I've been in this business for a long time. And I've learned a lot. And I've made a lot of mistakes in my career, but about 20 years ago, and it would be Believe it or not, it was actually before I met you, Brian, and you might not have thought this, but I got into this really servant leadership mode. And what I realized was, you know, and I mean, listen, I've had a special career, I've worked with great people, and I've learned so much. But you know, when I was younger, I'd say less than 10 years, you know, in my career, you know, I always felt like I had to be right. And I had to be the one with the answers. And, you know, that's great. But you know what, that's sort of a turn off sometimes, too. And, you know, one of my developmental objectives is like, Mike, you don't have to be the first one to say something. You know, there's other people, they'll say something to, and I learned from that. And it's taken me a long time, though, to be able to develop a servant type attitude. And when you do that, you really learn that you're not better than anybody else, you learn that other people have really great ideas, and you learn to listen, you learn to facilitate, and you want to hear what other people say, matter of fact, I enjoy it. I want to know what people can bring to the table, I want to know what they're able to add, I want to know what type of value they bring to the company and, and I want to help them. And when you start thinking it through that way, it's not necessarily easy, because the go-to move is to make a decision. But you know what, it's not about me, it's about everybody else. And you just got to learn how to do that.
Brian Glick 13:55
So you grew up in Indiana, you went as far as Ohio, and then you went as far as Tennessee are fascinating states fascinating places that we love. And then now you're part of a very global organization, right, that, you know, has headquarters in on another continent and divisions that are spread as far as the winds can blow, you know, kind of what is it been like learning to operate in that environment, right, which actually happened after we stopped working together.
Mike Honious 14:28
So, you know, it's pretty amazing. You know, when you say, what's a very large company, and people ask me that, and I'm like, Well, let's talk about billions, not millions here. Like, why might you not actually do this. You know, listen, I mean, I didn't even grow up in a city. So you know, he has a population of about 750 people and I had to drive four to five miles just to get there. And you know, and I was actually totally happy where I grew up. I mean, it wasn't even a restaurant to go to, you know, I did Ravel aways to be able to do that. I think when I got into college, I started to learn different things. You know, people come from all different areas, you know, different cities, and whatnot, and you get curious about other cultures. And I think that's what's really exciting for me today. And I've been to a majority of the countries in Europe, I've been all over in Asia, I've been, you know, I'm responsible for South America. So I get to go down there. And I really want to experience the culture. And I want to go out of the way to experience a culture, and I want my team to take me to what they want me to see, because it's special to them. And if it's special to them, it's going to be special to me. And that allows you to be able to stay engaged, you know, with the team. And then when you think about where I have to go, when I have board meetings and whatnot, you know, and I'm with, you know, somewhat of a more of a peer group, you really got to learn about okay, well, people are from different countries, they think about things differently, like, is this a country? That's high context? You know, we live in the United States, so we're low context, what does that mean? Well, other countries really like to explain their position, and they like to talk about it. Other countries like to debate, you know, in the United States, we just like to state matter of fact, and try to get to a decision, while it may take an hour longer in other countries to be able to do that, you know, and some countries don't even like to make a decision, they are more collaborative. So you have to learn that too. And, there's a book that I read, and it's called the Culture Map by Erin Meyer. And I really took that to heart and went through that. And it really talks about the different cultures and what the culture appreciates and how to communicate. And I read that book. And matter of fact, I have a little cheat sheet underneath my keyboard. So it shows me kind of what it actually is. I mean, being an engineer, you know, I'm bullet pointed out, okay, well, what's important in this country from a cultural perspective, and I pull it out every once in a while when I'm in meetings where we have to make decisions, because it helps me get through the conversations.
Brian Glick 16:57
I think one of the things that's interesting, and I remember going through this, was when we did the first international acquisition, and I was one of the only people in the IT department that had a passport. So I was the one that was sent to Asia, right was kind of figuring out that you can learn these things, right? And they look very natural. The senior executives, especially in the international freight side, you know, that we grew up around, it seemed like they just knew all of this stuff, like it was, they've been doing it so long with it. These are things that people can learn, right, like you can learn. This is how business is done in Germany. This is how business is done in New York. And if you bring a German approach to a New York meeting, they're gonna stop listening to you before you get through the first point, right? Like, exactly, yeah, it works. So, we'll try to get a link to that book in the show notes as well. So you get to think about the future, I'm assuming a lot in your role now, you know, and where you guys are going and where the industry is going. And to some effect where the economy is going, all of those things. I'm not going to ask you for predictions, because they're silly, usually. But what are you excited about? Like, what are you seeing out there that has you jazzed up?
Mike Honious 18:09
Well, I actually have a pretty good pulse beat on what's going on. My job allows me to do that, but I participate on other boards and whatnot. And that's always helpful as well. But we've been in a supply chain recession, I'd say over the last nine months, probably, even if you look at the freight forwarding sector, some would say a year. And here's what's so exciting about that. And people would be like, Why, Mike, would you be excited about the supply chain recession? Well, it's not necessarily the funnest thing to do in the world. But when you know, you're in it, you know, I'm in COVID, and I'm drinking out of a firehose, and, you know, everybody wants us to ship something wherever, you know, and they're like, What do you mean, you can't ship it, it's like, we'll get to it and we find capacity, and we help people out, you know, during COVID. And then all the inventory levels got, I would say, overbought, you know, by, and the consumer packaged goods and retail industry, etc, to where basically the bordering spigot got turned off in the back half of last year. So you go through these cycles, and what gets me excited is, you know, we had to go through a lot of supply chain companies, you go through kind of the defense mechanism. I mean, we're playing somewhat of a defense and I'm talking to my team next week to actually have an off site strategy meeting. And actually I've been working on, you know, my session, and we're talking about how do you turn defense into playing offense, and I'm really excited about that. Because in order to be able to get in the offensive mode, if you want to talk about sports, you know, you play there's a defense and there's offense and there's times to turn certain things on and we definitely I see an opportunity for us to get more offensive, and being able to go after some market share, especially in a situation where the transportation capacity has been so abundant, and there's been a lot of consolidation happening in the industry. I mean, this is an opportunity for us to take advantage of that. And we have such a global presence. You know, we got the opportunity to take advantage of those situations and we're building out an end to end some Why Jane, so there's going to be opportunities on the acquisition side, there's going to be opportunity for us to bring in new logos. As we go through consolidation, we're able to cross sell more. I mean, it's just the abundance is there. But as a leader, Brian got to get people's mindset shifted on where they need to go. And we've been in this cost control mode, and we've done a great job, we haven't been one of those companies and has had to announce massive layoffs or etc, etc. Because we're constantly looking at how we're running. And sure, we have to tweak at times, and we've been able to do that. And I just feel right now is an opportunity for us to get more offensive. And I'm gonna go through that with my leadership next week. And I'm excited about it. And I'm looking forward to how they're gonna react to it, because I'm sure they're ready to go on offense, too.
Brian Glick 20:44
Yeah, this actually maps pretty well to a number of conversations that I've been having with, I would say, your peers in other companies, and you know, about that sort of, okay, people are getting back now to talking about how do we bring more value to the customers? What can we do to differentiate ourselves? How do we provide a service offering other than we have capacity? Right? Because for a long time we had capacity, and then it was now okay, well, everyone has capacity, we can be cheap. And now people have servers. Okay, but maybe we need to get back to the world where there's something other than capacity or cheap, right?
Mike Honious 21:18
Well, let me tell you something, I look at this on the supply chain, we're going to look at it in the IT world, there are companies that will buy based on price only. And when you look at those types of companies, they are not very strategic, number one, number two, they treat their partners as commodities. And number three values, not important to him. And when you're a leader, and what's important to me is Do I really want to partner with a company like that? And do I want to sell to a company like that? And my answer is no, you know, we're not commodities, we're value players. All right, Brian, you're a value player, you solve your problems. You know, we solve problems, we add value. And you got to make sure that when you look for those new logos, you're doing it in a way, because you want to be their partner, you want to be their growth partner, and you want to solve their problems. And I think time and time again, you know, and I think this is what hurt companies going into COVID, they were so unprepared, you know, and they were in shock. And the fact of the matter is, if you have a business model that really is able to tap into the value, and really tap into flexibility and adaptability, you're gonna make it through whatever the situation is. And that's why when you talk to me about what I see and about going on offense is that we're coming out of supply chain recession, and we're gonna be bigger, better, leaner, meaner, and add more capabilities and have more capabilities than our customers we were ever able to provide, you know, in the past. And that's exciting. That is very exciting.
Brian Glick 22:48
Yeah, I mean, we have this conversation internally all the time. Because if we ever compete on a deal on price, we lose, we're kind of expensive. But what we found growing this company from zero was, as we mapped the best and worst customers over time, the ones that paid us the least consumed the most resources, and not even on like a per dollar basis, just like the ones that fought us the most at the beginning fought us the whole way, right, and never really get the value for the ones that really do want to partner with us are usually willing to also make sure that we're making money, right? And that it becomes less transactional. So like, I totally, totally agree with you. So, and I know we've had customers together that have been like that over the years, the ones that make us better. They're not always our favorites either, right? But there's the ones that make us better. And then there's the ones that are just super transactional. So I want to ask you something. So you know, you're in this big organization, and you have all of these cost constraints or not constraints, but like there's, you know, you make budgets, and you're, you know, a well organized company. Last time I visited, you had redesigned and rebuilt the entire interior of your office building, gutted it and started over why?
Mike Honious 24:02
Well, here's my saying, I'll be simple right at the very beginning. You don't want people to feel like they have to come to work, you want people to want to come to work. And there's a couple of things. And we actually started this in 2018 2019. We're growing out of our space, I went and did several tours of other office locations, and we're looking at bigger offices, and I was like getting people in like they knew that we were looking at my teammates, were like, Mike, do not move us, please. We liked the area. I'm like, alright, you know, we're settled in Nashville. I mean, it's a great area. And I'm like, Okay, we need to think about that. We also you know, being a supply chain, we have a lot of people that you know, have to be on job sites and whatnot and travel and we looked at it and we're like, Okay, well, let's look at having more of an a community type experience, where people can come and they don't necessarily have to work in the you know, their same desk or same office. They can work in their neighborhood, you know, let's have neighborhoods, let's have collaborative spaces. And let's be able to create an environment where people can walk around and have discussions and be more of a team. And, you know, I love my god, Ian's and they love working in a team type atmosphere. So we went and we decided to sign a long term lease and the current place we were at. And at that time, I mean, it only holds like 700 people, and we're growing up to over 1000. So we knew already that we needed to do this three day, four day five day workweek type scenario. And we went ahead and started implementing it. And sure enough, here comes COVID. After all, we had all these plans and a big theme. So during COVID, it was pretty interesting. We were actually remodeling our offices during COVID. So all that was going on, so people couldn't even be in the office anyway. So that just worked out, it helped us out. And, and you know, now we're all back. I mean, we have a full office today. It's fun, we did a seafood boil on Friday out in the parking lot. And everybody did it, our whole team. So we had team members that were checking people in, we had team members that were doing the seafood boil, we had team members passing out drinks, it was great. I mean, we had a blast on Friday. And it's nice to have an atmosphere to be able to do that. And I hear it over and over again how much people appreciate being able to work here and having some flexibility. And we even have some plants, like even in the main entrance, we used to have this water fountain that we took out Brian, when we used to hang out by. So we took that out. And we created a kind of an IV plant display with our company name on it. I mean, it's nice, I like to go down there at eight in the morning, have some coffee and wish people good morning. When they come in, they know they can't walk past me without saying hi. So it's good to get some good early morning engagement.
Brian Glick 26:44
That's awesome. And it's just really, I mean, I have been to the office since the renovation. And you really do get that sense of like, people are moving their feet a lot around the office, like I saw a lot of walking conversations versus, you know, kind of being locked in a conference room. And I thought that seemed like suicide, I was a little bit jealous.
Mike Honious 27:05
So everybody knows I'm a time robber too. So they see me walking around, they know oh my gosh, Here's Mike, he's gonna get me in a conversation. And I freely admit it. I'm like, Hey, I know you're working on something important. But I just want to come and rob your time for a little bit. Just hang out and talk, see how the family's doing etc. It's fun, it's fun to be able to do that.
Brian Glick 27:23
I want to wrap up just asking you kind of what is your favorite part of your job, what gets you out of bed in the morning?
Mike Honious 27:33
It's a lot of fun being able to work with a team. It wasn't I've been doing this at this company for 18 years. And I've only worked for two companies. I mean, people can say I'm like, as boring as boring can get. Now I've had the privilege to work in all different departments. But when you walk around, and you're hanging out, you know, we're a Multi Floor facility, I'm on the second floor hanging out with it. Now I'm in like one of their like, little cube areas, you know, like teamwork areas, and they're all coming over to say hi. And you know, we're talking and I go shoot down to the first floor. And I'm hanging out with solutions and engineering. And, you know, I'm looking at some facility that's being designed or they're working on some project and I go over to client services. And we're talking about, you know, what's going on with some of our big customers and kind of what's the next big thing. I mean, you just learn a lot. It's fun, it's fun seeing the team grow. It's fun seeing all the different types of diversity that we have. I mean, we have all of our ERG s employee resource groups. I mean, I was talking to Anthony Jordan, our chief operating officer, he just took good out for lunch, that's Judeans owning their own diversity. Now I was outside at one of our little tables eating lunch, and he comes over and we're having a good time. And I had such a good experience that, you know, they were having lunch and getting everybody together. I mean, it's exciting. I mean, it's fun just seeing smiles on people's faces and how much they appreciate the work that they're doing. And I think as a leader, that's like one of my number one priorities is making sure that that momentum continues, and people have an opportunity in our workspace to be able to do that. So that's how I feel about it.
Brian Glick 29:09
You know, I can't think of a better place to wrap. So Mike and I thanks so much for being honest. It's great to catch up with you and to learn a little bit about your approach.
Mike Honious 29:19
Brian, as always, stays in touch. It's always a good time and yeah.
Brian Glick 29:27
We'll get some links in the show notes there for Geodis as well as for the book that Mike mentioned. Hope you enjoyed the episode. And as always, make sure to subscribe to the channel to feed on LinkedIn as well as to the podcast if you're not already subscribed, we got a lot of new product updates coming out as well as some exciting updates specifically around digital transformation and supporting those strategies for both logistics providers and shippers. So hope you enjoy all that content as it comes up and thanks for listening.